what a masterful example of jehovahs's loving kindness and wisdom is the hyena.. most carefully jehovah designed the birth canal of the female hyena to abruptly do a 140 degree turn just before the normal place of exit for the birth canal and change direction back to the head of the mother.
the birth canal then ends in what is generally referred to as a female pseudo-penis, a narrow tube exiting the body exactly where the male penis does.. .
when the young hyena mother first gives birth, most times the young get stuck around the bend or lower down in the tight "penis", where they suffocate and die.
Haha, very interesting.
Ah, the great watchmaker!
What I can't understand is why everyone doesn't understand the significance of things like this. Most religious people will ignore such evidence and continue to stick their heads in the sand when it comes to the indisputable proof that evolution has taken place and is indeed taking place as we speak.
Thanks for bringing out this example
if i had to be tied down i would say disfellowshipping.
totally unnecessary and i really think it spans itself into a lot of other wt policies/mindsets.
"disagree with us and you are a dead man"
Well said Aligot Ripounsous,
I do believe that in about 10 years the JW climate will be decidedly different as a new generation is exposed to higher learning and the internet.
The degradation from within has already begun and is picking up steam.
The ivory tower is crumbling, and I for one am eagerly looking to help those, who are even now emerging from the rubble, and jumping from the windows.
Educate Educate Educate! The new battle cry for young JWs everywhere!
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Sincerly,
The Oracle
i posted a new topic so i could expand on some comments without hijacking the hugging 5thgeneration thread.
my take on point 1: blood transfusions.
personally, i still would not accept blood transfusions, but not because of some borg mind control.
Haha, Hi Penny
I don't know how you guys do that thing where you copy what people have written and paste it in to your reply so that it is in a little box, so I'm just doing a regular copy and paste... you said...
I'm sure quite a few will be hoping that Oracle is their brother. Oracle! Do you have a sister - 47 years old?
My answer: nope. No sister 47 years old! Wish I could give you a clue, but I need to keep totally undercover!
By the way, is this a common thing, trying to guess one another identities? Has anyone ever discovered somebody?
Sincerly,
The Oracle
i posted a new topic so i could expand on some comments without hijacking the hugging 5thgeneration thread.
my take on point 1: blood transfusions.
personally, i still would not accept blood transfusions, but not because of some borg mind control.
Hi Horrible Life,
Sadly, you have mistaken me for someone else.
However, if you like I can help free the mind you are referring to. Just send me a private message with an email and address and I will begin working on freeing his mind.
That offer goes applies to anyone here, by the way. If you are trying to help a loved one break free from the dangerous and unhealthy environment of the JW faith, and just can't seem to get through to them - perhaps I can help. I do not have unlimited time and resources, and cannot guarantee success, but I will certainly do my best to assist.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Sincerly,
The Oracle.
i posted a new topic so i could expand on some comments without hijacking the hugging 5thgeneration thread.
my take on point 1: blood transfusions.
personally, i still would not accept blood transfusions, but not because of some borg mind control.
Wow!
Thanks Sue, that is a nice thing to say. But, is there really of a best of section? LOL
On a related note, I am finding it a bit difficult to navigate around this site and find things. Does anyone have any tips on how to use the site, and keep track of who is posting what and where to find posts you would like to read etc etc?
The Oracle
i posted a new topic so i could expand on some comments without hijacking the hugging 5thgeneration thread.
my take on point 1: blood transfusions.
personally, i still would not accept blood transfusions, but not because of some borg mind control.
Penny, thanks for your excellent additional points regarding staying on as an elder, and for your kind and encouraging words. I really mean it - THANK YOU!! You will be happy to hear that I fully endorse all those additional points you mention, and on every possible occasion seek to do just as you wrote, and will certainly continue to do so with great gusto.
And Snakes - thank you for your wise words of advice. I have to agree with what you are saying, and I totally understand the route you took. I don't know how long I can keep this up myself, but so far so good. I seem to be blessed with a strong phsychological constitution (or I am very stubborn or stupid...probably a combination of all 3) so I am not too worried about getting messed up psycholgoically. Keeping the big picture, and my contributions to society (not to be confused the WTBS) in focus helps me get through a lot of crap. I look forward to more insight from you in the future, as I am sure it will help my journey.
Here is a neat tid-bit. I haven't really been door to door in over a year. That would truly be hypocritical and extremely difficult to justify, if I were doing what I am doing on the inside, while at the same time going out in to the field to win over new converts, that would be pretty counter-productive... unless of course, I purposely botched the presentations and made us sound like a bunch of koo-koos. Hmmm... that wouldn't be too hard would it? Hee Hee.
Having said that, really all my JW dealings are restricted to regular meetings, elders meetings and social association, and the occasional circuit assembly part. I use my influence in all those situations to promote free thinking and to do all those things I mentioned at length in a previous post. At present, I feel my voice as an elder, has a greater impact and is helping me to achieve my goals quicker. There will come a time when that is no longer the case I am sure. But there are many different factors weighing on me, not the least of which include my family and close friends.
---------------------------
Funniest moment at my meeting this week... I slapped my book study assistant on the back (whom I have been asking a multitude of times over the last 6 months to take the group) and declared in a loud voice, "Poor Jim.... I have missed so many meetings lately, Jim here must be thinking I am falling out of the truth!" Literally 8 different brothers and sisters who were standing with us, broke out in to hillarious laughter. I then went on to imitate myself calling my assistant "Jim" with lame excuse after lame excuse, as to why I needed him to keep taking the book study. My little audience was in stitches... I too was laughing so hard I could hardly breathe, but of course for a much different reason than everyone else! Ah, you gotta have fun with it - either that or YOU WILL GO CRAZY....but wait... I know what some of you are thinking... is he already there??? Maybe so! Maybe so! But, if anyone is still interested I will keep you all posted concerning my ongoing adventures in the continuing sage .... The Oracle, Undercover Elder in the 21st Century!
.
i got this idea from my wife.
she posted a similar topic on one of the forums she frequents.
Very cute kids!
The beautiful thing is that you can raise them with a value system that you approve of 100%.
That is what being a parent is all about isn't it?
Instilling in your children the real truth about life, how to love unconditionally, and how to view each person as a fellow brother or sister as a member of the human race - and NOT as someone that is destined to get pinned under part of a falling building, only to get eaten alive by the local bird population, all while a voice from the heavens majestically proclaims... "I AM JEHOVAH".
But I digress! Your kids are really cute, and I am sure you love them to pieces! I am so glad they will have a normal and healthy childhood!
Peace be with you and your family! I am looking forward to the year 4 update already.
crumpet suggested i retitle this thread so more will notice it.
i take that as a compliment that someone would actually want to read my ramblings.... here is the original post, which was a response to a new poster named oracle:.
my take on point 1: blood transfusions.
Hi Snakes,
Hi Crumpet,
Hey Crumpet, can you tell me what your situation is now? And what about the insensitive elder that gave you the misguided lecture...do you know his current situation?
i posted a new topic so i could expand on some comments without hijacking the hugging 5thgeneration thread.
my take on point 1: blood transfusions.
personally, i still would not accept blood transfusions, but not because of some borg mind control.
Hey SnakesintheTower,
Thanks for the welcome post.
Just getting to know how to work my way around this cool site and I just discovered your post.
Glad to hear you are in agreement with points 2 though 5, and are warming up to point #1 (blood transfusions). Bottom line is that I agree with the right to choose medical treatment, but if you refuse blood or blood fractions please make sure you are refusing for the right reasons! Wouldn't it be a tragedy if those that you love and who possibly rely on you for caregiving, lose you because of a "truth hangover" resulting in your refusal to accept life saving treatment? Personally, I would choose blood alternatives as long as it was medically advisable to do so. Call it a mini hangover if you must, but I honestly don't like the idea of someone else's blood coursing through my veins and the dangers that that may bring.... UNLESS IT IS GOING TO SAVE MY LIFE!!!
As for your comments on, as you refer to it "my plan on eating away the tower from the inside", I need to clarify my actual plan. It is not to eat away the tower from the inside, it is to "free as many minds as I can from the inside". There is a big difference. You have seen the Matrix no doubt? NEO had to jack in to the Matrix to get people out. At present that is all I am trying to do, free minds. If I can free 10, 20, 30, or 100 minds before I leave then I will be a very happy man. Much happier than I was after watching my first bible study get baptised. This time I'll be doing something that is TRULY GOOD!
As for your comments on my decision to remain as an elder for the time being, I see exactly where you are coming from. However, allow me to expound a little on my rationale for choosing to do so, and I hope you will understand why I have made that decision for now...and don't view me a dirty hypocritical elder
First off let me say that all that really matters to me at this point is that I am able to free as many minds as possible before I finally bid farewell. Nothing else matters in connection with my involvement in "the truth". So whatever helps to achieve that goal whether it be serving as an elder, a special pioneer, circuit overseer - whatever ... I don't care. All I care about are results at this point. I don't allow the hypocrisy angle to deter me from my goal, because in the end, all that really matters is how many people are free and how many are still trapped. It's like the British double agent who was stealing secrets for his government from the Nazi's in WWII. Do you think he worried about how hypocritical he was being, pretending to work for the Nazi's? It helps to realize who the real enemy is, so that the mind is able to focus on what is important and what really matters at the end of the day.
Having said that I have developed a bit of a code of conduct, or set of guidelines that I try hard to follow, while I continue to hold down "elder" duties. This helps me to deal with those yucky feelings that come along with being a double agent. I can share them with you I suppose, after all this is a friendly place where I can post all of my crazy opinions and musings... those who want to read it can....those who want to move on to something more interesting will undoubtedly do so! But I invite feedback and specific questions on what I am up to!
The Oracles Guidelines for Staying on as an Elder
1) When praying at any meeting;
- do not pray for Jehovah's spirit to be with the Faithful and
Discreet Slave Class, the governing body, the Watchtower, the
bethel etc
- pray for Jehovah's spirit to be with the members of the
congregation
- thank Jehovah for the bible
- thank Jehovah for the principles contained in the bible like - be
specific - love of neighbour, generosity, forgiveness etc.
- pray for help in cultivating the fruitages of the spirit
- pray for forgiveness of sins
- pray for strength
- pray for wisdom to make good decisions
- pray for understanding and knowledge and clear thinking ability
- pray to help us individually to develop and listen to our
consciences
- promote individual responsibilities and accountability
- avoid saying anything that promotes group think
- avoid saying anything that promotes hatred for the world or for
any individuals
- pray for young ones to develop "a spirit of learning" and to
continue to read and take in knowledge, and to research
2) When commenting at the meetings
- do not support any teaching you know to be false
- where possible introduce doubt in any false teaching
- comment on bible texts that you support and believe in
- wherever possible introduce the thought of being balanced and
being responsible for making our own decisions
- wherever possible emphasize that the faithful and discreet slave
has made many mistakes in the past, and are imperfect like the rest
of us
- wherever possible make references to past teachings that have
changed, noting that they have changed. This can easily be done
under the auspices of keeping up with Jehovah's organization, and
making sure we have the latest understanding
3) When in Elders meetings;
- quote the scriptures often
- always consider the welfare of others as paramount in your mind
- consider the feelings of the sheep
- do not allow other elders to speak disparigingly of any members
of the congregation
- when another elder makes a joke about anyone who is considered
spiritually weak, rebuke that one in a kind manner
- when elders speak of priveleges of service in a manner that
reflects ambition, rebuke them and remind them that we are in a
position of servitude
- do not promote teachings that are false
- suggest local needs topics that will help promote doubt in "the
truth", or that provide a general focus on bible principles that
are in line with human decency
- take careful notes of everything that is said
- wherever possible encourage that professional help be suggested
to any member of the congregation where there is an obvious case of
psychological troubles.
- Strongly discourage any elder from counseling any brother or
sister with mental issues of any kind
- Strongly discourage any elder from getting involved in marital in
private family matters
- whenever a matter is decided where an elder needs to counsel
someone and you do not agree with the counsel, be sure to volunteer
to deliver the counsel and then seek to sabatoge the counsel by
speaking with the other elder assigned and make sure the counsel is
softened or changed sufficiently so that it does not cause discouragement or psychological damage
- whenever the law is broken inform the body that your conscience
dictates that you must report it to the authorities
- wherever possible make publisher cards disappear, especially
those that are in the file of inactive publishers
- collect the names and contact information of as many other elders
as you can whenever given the opportunity to do so
- always act shocked whenever something is said that does not make
common sense, even if it is something taught by the society
- often ask if that is the current teaching, and frequently
reminiscent about past understandings and policies.
- introduce the terms "policy" and "position" when it comes to
published understandings and interpretations
- where possible use the term "kill" or "killed" instead of terms
like "destroyed" or "removed" when referring to people who will die
at Armageddon. Slip in the occassional "justifiably murdered" by
Jehovah or by his angels, or something similar if you can get away
with it.
- when the blood issue comes up, make sure all the elders are very
well aware of the latest understanding in allowing many new blood
fractions to be taken. Emphasise the need to be kept up to date,
and that many people may needlessly die, or that children may
needlessly lose a mother or a father if we are not up to date in
making sure the sheep know that this is a conscience matter now.
Emphasise that this was not until very recently the case, and that
one could be disfellowshipped until very recently for taking many
of these blood fractions. Create doubts that the current policy
will remain in effect and that it is likely that more "blood
reform" is coming.
- do not do or say anything to blow your cover
- do not do or say anything to blow the cover of anyone else who is
working to help free minds from the inside
man i would love a hug from all of you right now!
a real, warm, christian hug!
i am in total dismay, confusion and am totally pissed at the "truth".
Hello.
I am new here. I am a very good friend of 5th generation. I am currently serving as an elder, but have recently come to realize that the truth is not really the truth after all. With this realization comes a new purpose in life...
There are many people whom I love and care deeply for who are trapped in the religion. My greatest desire is to see these ones freed from the WT society and its teachings, which I feel are dangerous for these five basic reasons:
1) they teach that you cannot take a blood transfusion. This could lead to the death of a loved one. A father. A mother. A son. A daughter. A dear friend. That's not cool.
2) they promote a judgemental culture. This causes psychological damage in individuals and retards their growth as responsible human beings. It can and often does lead to suicidal thinking. It leads to class distinctions within the group, and psychological brow beating which can lead to depression. Guilt and fear are cultivated regularly through the printed page and through "talks".
3) their policy on child molestation has hurt thousand of children and families. Not reporting child molestation to the authorities unless it can be established by two witnesses is abhorent.
4) their policy on shunning and disfellowshipping has ruined the lives of tens of thousand people around the earth and has destroyed familes and friendships, not to mention the often irrepairable psychological damage to the individual who has been a victim of shunning.
5) their teachings cheapen life. JW teachings promote loyalty to a "society" over everything else in one's life. The teaching of a resurrection promotes the thinking that "this life" doesn't really matter that much, and when faced with any life and death decisions - loyalty to the "society" must be chosen over your personal safety or the safety of your family.
These are serious facts about JW teachings, and the harm that is caused by these five points is very real. It is for this reason that I cannot simply leave quietly and fade away.
Currently my goal is to liberate one mind a month. I have decided to stay on as an elder while I work to free as many minds as I can because I think I can have more success working from the inside while serving in that role. It gives me certain strategic advanatages that are significant. Although working undercover does presents many challenges, and I do not know how much longer I will be allowed to fulfill that capacity, as long as I have a respected voice that can be listened to - I will use it to promote real truth and promote awareness of damaging WT policy.
Anyway - enough about me. I just thought I'd share a little personal info since I am new to these parts. I would also like to add, if I may, that for those that choose or have chosen to simply fade away - I do not judge you adversely in any way. Just because I have decided to do the NEO thing, doesn't mean I think everyone is morally obligated to do the same. Everyone has different circumstances. To steal some WT schtik - it's just that my circumstances allow me to fill a role, and I feel morally obligated to fill it. That's all. If you are fading and that is all you want to do - FANTASTIC! DO IT! The important thing is that you free your mind and get on with your life!! You can leave the "apostate" activity to guys like me if you wish.
At the same time, I do encourage any and all to join the cause to help as many of our dear and innocent friends, who may be trapped in the JW religion, to awaken to the real truth. Most JWs are completely unaware that they are living a lie, and are not only wasting valuable time serving a man-made movement, but are putting themselves and their families unnecessarily in harm's way due to the five points as outlined above. They need to be warned! They need to be educated!
If anyone has any material or any experiences that may prove useful in convincing a loved one to reconsider their allegience to the Watchtower Society and its band of local elders - I would love to hear from you. Let's spread the good word - no one deserves to be trapped in a mind control group - there is so much that life has to offer outside the prison of "the truth".
cheers!
